General Plan Steering Committee

The City of Pacifica and City Council will form a General Plan Steering Committee in the near future. We have been told that the committee will be named after City Council reorganizes. The following people have applied for a position on this very important committee:

Ron Carlson
Samuel Casillas
Lin Hawkins
Noel Blincoe
Sue Vaterlaus
John Curtis
Michael O’Neill
Barbara Arietta
Robin Runneals
Julia Boyle
Victor Carmichael
Anna Boothe
Mary Keitelman
David Alquist
Karen Rosenstein
Bill Moore
Tod Schlesinger
Jim Wagner
Horace Hinshaw

We urge City Council to appoint all the applicants. They represent a broad swath of the political, environmental, developmental, and residential demographics. Some may say that a committee this large would be unwieldy and nonproductive. We disagree. Every faction and interest should be represented at that table. This will be a long and trying process. We as a city must take advantage of the varying experiences and expertise that these individuals will bring to the process. Once again, we urge City Council to be inclusive in their choices and appoint all applicants.

Jim Wagner
Chair
Pacifica Business for Responsible Government 

Comments

[Steve Sinai]

Sue - Tod+d has accused me of being a REALTOR, a Nazi, and a flying monkey. When he says things like that, I figure it's just Tod+d being Tod+d. I find his comments interesting, but I don't take much of what he says seriously anymore.

[Sue Vaterlaus]

First let me thank Bruce Hallman for knowing that I am not an extremist. We may disagree at times but he is correct that I am not what Todd Bray thinks of me.

Todd Bray- If you ask you will find that there is not one REALTOR in Cynthia's group. Stop bashing REALTORS. I am a REALTOR and I am not a member of any of the "groups" in Pacifica except a volunteer group that paints homes, donates baskets to seniors, sends lots of money to the resource center, etc. I never speak for REALTORS, I speak for myself. Get over it.

If you think that various names on the list should be disqualified because they have opinions, you will have to disqualify everyone on the list. Do you think that the committee should be made up of all people with one opinion, yours? How extremist.

[todd bray]

Cynthia, again you are incorrect. As of today the city is not legally required to update the GP, it has already happened. As for the steering committee:

"This is what the Council resolution establishing the committee states:

"WHEREAS, the purpose of the General Plan Update Steering Committee
("Steering Committee") is to assist with the community forums, help
facilitate small group discussions, and assist in reaching out to the
community; . . .Re your second point, there is no specific GP update requirement, other than for the housing element, so I am not sure to what you refer."

So once again Cynthia your own ideology and ambitions are getting the better of you. There is a difference between what one feels or thinks things should be and what those things actually are.

Legally there is no real reason to update the GP, and as for the purpose of the committee I'd say it has more to do with co-opting nay-sayers like yourself and your Realtor groups than anything else, so go forth and be co-opted, enjoy the lame light.

[Summer Rhodes]

Casino was a really good movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_(film)

[Cynthia Montanez]

Mr. Bray, it would be good to have area specific plans, those are covered under the general plan. California State law requires that a jurisdiction's general plan get updated every 7 to 10 years. We are woefully out of compliance.

I had done some preliminary research about a year ago, and most communities spent about $3 to $5 million and 18 months in developing their general plans. I think we are getting a bargain and everyone should be welcome to be part of the process. It's long and tedious, but a good consultant can help steer the way and help us all to avoid pitfalls.

[Bruce Hallman]

On November 28th Todd Bray identified a number of people named for the General Plan Steering Committee as "extremist", which is plainly out of line. While I personally do not know all the people mentioned, I do know enough first hand about Sue Vaterlaus and Mike O'Neill to object strenuously to the 'extremist' characterization.

While I don't share similar political views with these two people, I do know both to be thoughtful civic minded people who are assets to our community. Mike O'Neill deserves special thanks for his well considered, effective and steady hand in service on the School Board for which we all should be grateful.

[todd bray]

I'm still trying to get past the cost of this document and what value it can bring. Leo had a great idea during the meetings to pick a consultant for this project and that was to not spend the money on the larger effort of a General Plan update but to focus much smaller sums of public money on site specific plans for area's like the West Sharp Part treatment plant site.

Many recently approved development projects like Connemara, Cypress Walk, and the Prospects have requested and receive general plan amendments for basic things like changing the zoning of the property the project occupies that it makes the general plan a document to be ignored. And now we are looking at spending close to a million on a general plan document update. The math isn't working for me yet unless I figure in major changes.

I think everyone (the usual suspects) showed they can work together a few years ago when the Specific Plan was generated. I have no doubt that all the usual suspects above who want to be on this committee can get the job done but to what end? And how is that end better than a couple of site specific plans that could be done for 5% of the cost of the GP update?

I don't know, I really don't know.

[Lionel Emde]

I hope there is more of a written record than has been the case for recent task force/committees. The styrofoam ban people and the West Sharp Park committee have had less than satisfactory results in that communication with staff which, (according to them) has not resulted in a mutually satisfactory compromise.
My observation in the last one-year plus has been that staff advises, and council consents.
The most notable recent exception to that was the ridiculous proposal that Coastside Scavenger get a nine-year contract extension without a request for proposal. (RFP) It was voted down, rightly.
Why did staff even entertain such a proposal?

[Peter Loeb]

All I know is what I read in the agenda memo. I would expect that the first order of business when the committee convenes would be for the Council member liaisons, city staff, and consultants to review the committee's purpose and process with the members so they establish a shared understanding of what they will do and how they will operate.

[Lionel Emde]

Peter,
I'm glad you explained it and I assume you know what you're talking about.
But why couldn't city staff explain this? And I don't see your name on the applicant's list, so who's going to explain it to the roomful of people this list may produce?
I really think that the lines of communication between the city and the public are ill-tended.

[todd bray]

If Peter's post is the criteria for being on the committee then these folks listed below should be automatically disqualified from being members for their extremism and lack of consensus building abilities.

Sue Vaterlaus
John Curtis
Michael O’Neill
Tod Schlesinger
Jim Wagner

If the committee members are there to be shills for staff and council rewrites of the general plan that says there is a lack of trust of the public right at the starting gate or the realization that anyone on an update committee is going to be trouble.

I wasn't going to pay attention to this effort, but now...

[JC]

Is the application window still open? Or was it reopened after stated closing a month or two ago?

[Peter Loeb]

The General Plan Steering Committee will not be making decisions about the General Plan. It's supposed to be a large group, broad enough to be able to serve as liaisons, to facilitate access to all groups in the community to solicit their input and participation in the planning process.

According to the Council agenda memo of 9/22/08, staff envisioned 15 to 20 members. The primary task is to convene the community forums (NOT to BE the forum). The Steering Committee is supposed to identify how best to reach out to the community. They are expected to attend all the community meetings and to "help facilitate small group discussions....conveying confidence in the process, and inviting others to participate." This is a different animal than a task force. Members should be selected in terms of how well they can access a cross-section of groups in the community, how effective they can be as liaisons, how well they can encourage others to participate, and how able they are to facilitate discussion.

[Karen Rosenstein]

Hey Lionel,
It is actually 21 people now! Per this morning's Trib, Chris Ranken and Frank Vella have turned in applications as well.

John, it is our Thanksgiving Present to you!

Karen

[Lionel Emde]

I repeat: 19 people do not make a committee so much as a riot.
It's a bad idea. How do we get a balanced (between sides) committee that isn't so large as to be unwieldy?
I see a lot of worthwhile people on the list, the question is: Who's the Decider? (sorry)
There's one person on the list that I would not recommend, I'll leave that to the reader's imagination, and public attendance at these meetings is possible so it may not matter.

[JOHN MAYBURY]

i love it...you guys are editing your own stuff and even being civil to one another, sort of...keep up the good work

[Steve Sinai]

Oops, bad monkey grammar.

Should have written: As to Scotty's statement that we need to stop shouting at each other and try listening...

[Steve Sinai]

Hey Tod+d - just because I'm hairy doesn't mean you can call me a Flying Monkey.

As to Scotty's statement that we need to listen to stop shouting at each other and try listening, I think more is required. I think we need to meet each other. (But not if it's a girlie tea-party.) If you've got any guts, Tod+d, you will show up at the Salada Beach Cafe on Dec. 14. Don't chicken out like you did at the Corral Steakhouse.

I'll be there, and I believe Matt and Lionel will be too. We can discuss issues, and groom the bugs out of each other's hair.

[todd bray]

Steve buddy, it's not healthy for you to visualize yourself as a victim all the time. Sure it's seductive at first as you and your P4P folks have experienced. However the euphoria of feeling unchained from personal responsibility that self victimization brings, especially in your case, is short lived and like any other excessive behavior brings about a mental and physical change that could be hard to overcome.

Don't think of yourself as a victim Steve, you are in charge of your own destiny, you can be a whole person! It's not easy, you will want to blame others for your distresses, but if you can treat yourself with respect and compassion you can eventually be the person your inner self wants to become.

So spread those Flying Monkey wings of yours my friend and FLY!!!!

[Scotty]

Hey, but at least Todd and Dan seem to be trying to be inclusive. That takes a good person. It's admirable, and we should all try and be that way.

We can all have different opinions and still all want to make a place we love better. At the risk of sounding like what Steve calls a hippy, maybe things really would work out better if we tried to listen to each other rather than out-shout each other.

[Steve Sinai]

"It's easy to point a finger and whine. Try something else. Try being human, look at the people that bug you as fellow humans not the enemy. It will hurt at first but don't be afraid, after awhile it will get easy."

Wow!! Tod+d is the last person who should be advising people not to treat others as the enemy. Can you say "hypocrisy?"

[todd bray]

Dans put that very softly and with a lot of compassion. Here's my take on it.

If every time you go to pick up a hammer and it gives you an nasty electrical shock pretty soon you stop reaching for that hammer. Jeff, you and Tod have a lot of things to say that are positive and could help the community but you guys are that hammer.

It's easy to point a finger and whine. Try something else. Try being human, look at the people that bug you as fellow humans not the enemy. It will hurt at first but don't be afraid, after awhile it will get easy.

[Dan Underhill]

Jeffrey,

You are clearly a very loyal friend. We should all have such loyal friends
as you are. I don't think your loyalty has passed the point where it stops being a good thing yet. It is, however, time for Mr. Schlesinger to demonstrate that he is worthy of your unflagging defense of him. If he really is as smart as he thinks he is then we really need his help. If he isn't then he is like unto the rest of us and his contribution still might be useful but nobody's going to get it if it comes with all that static. In my youth, in the sixties and seventies, I did hear a great deal of rock and roll, R&B, and soul on KEWB , not to mention many fabulous lectures on the "Minds Ear" program on KPFA but the signal and the static were just about equal on my
made-in-Japan transistor radio and I found that nobody else in my world was
willing to listen to anything that way. If Mr. Schlesinger has something to
contribute and wants to do so then he needs to take a look at who does get
listened to and study that, study how they arrange that their delivery helps,
rather than hinders the audiences ability to take in what they are saying.
The rest of us might study that as well because there are often very
intelligent lurkers on such sites as these who might join in and contribute
if it appears that we are serious about what we do and aren't likely to spring the surprise Asshole on them as soon as they join in the discussion. Mr. Schlesinger will have his past behaviors to overcome and it does take longer to overcome a bad reputation than it takes to build one but there are many examples of people learning the lessons they need to and moving on.

[Ian Butler]

Jeff,
I promise that if Tod stops acting like a fool, I'll stop pointing out that he is acting like a fool. But at the last City Council meeting, he made it clear that he intends to remain every bit the fool, so I guess I've got my work cut out for me.

[Lionel Emde]

I served on the Fireworks Task Force and we had 10-20 people at each meeting.
Chief Saunders did an excellent job as meeting facilitator/liaison to the city.
Without such leadership on a committee of 19 people, plus staff and observers, this could be a real train wreck.
Quite apart from who's on the committee, the numbers should give pause.