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May 04, 2016


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"Whoever has the video, please put the UNEDITED version on YouTube, so everyone can watch!"

Pacific Coast TV (PCT) Channel 26 posts videos in a day or so on its own site and sometimes on the station's YouTube channel. Anyway, PCT is public TV, so it's not likely that it would fund a meeting held by a privately held business. Must have been the developer's video guy -- maybe they'll post the video for the public to share their info.

"... traffic will be a problem ..."
Adding 600-1,000 more cars is not a good way to solve traffic problems.

We've got traffic issues now -- just wait till we have 600-1,000 more cars in the quarry, with only one direction to get out, unless they decide to use a boat and go by sea.

Thanks for letting me point out the obvious.

Whether we build in the quarry or give it to GGNRA, traffic will be a problem. As soon as GGNRA gets a hold of it and connects it to Mori Point and starts advertising it on the GGNRA website and elsewhere, hordes will show up who unfortunately don't bring in much tax revenue to support the city. At least a quarry buildout would bring in some of that.
The entrance to Mori Point is a mess now, with traffic along Bradford Way so bad that it's impossible to even get out of the driveway. Sometimes we have to go stand out in the road to stop cars so we can get out. Between the stupid WAZE app users who clog up the road during the afternoon commute and the Mori Pointers, I wonder what the carbon load in our neighborhood is these days. Then there's the trash that they leave, and I'm counting the days until the new toilet facility they built to enhance our neighborhood gets tagged.

Thanks for letting me rant.

Bottom line is still the residential entitlement on the Quarry property. All else is eyewash. If commercial development was even feasible in that area, it would have been built out years ago.
Vote accordingly, as to your wishes.

" ...I'm glad she was finally shut down ..."

Demonize the opposition -- so democratic.

Check out our local community access TV station, Pacific Coast TV (http://pacificcoast.tv/). It posts videos on its own site and on YouTube. If you discover video of this quarry meeting, please send it to PCT TV and to John Maybury at Riptide and Dan Stegink at Pacifica.city. These guys know how to get it up!

60 seems like a lot, unless the (friendly and efficient) wait staff counts as part of the 60. But I didn't actually count the number of attendees, so you could be correct. But even if you are right, 60 is a small turnout for an issue as hotly contested as this one. And, for the record, I am not complaining about the number of people who showed up (a number of whom were part of the developer's crew). I just stated my observation that the turnout was small. From what I understand, a lot of the key players in this matter did not think this meeting was worth their time. I had nothing else to do that night.

Re Theresa, I simply noted that she was sitting at a table of supporters that was set up right where Zentner also hung out, and appeared to have been sitting before he got up and started speaking. Re the chamber people, I thought I saw more than two members, but I agree that just two SPEAKERS identified themselves as chamber members. (If memory serves, they were Flores and Gonzales, correct?)

You say "noisy"; I say "screaming" -- either way the kid was annoying.

Re Laurie and Palmetto, I drifted in and out of that discussion, but didn't she start on Palmetto because Zentner said something to the effect that the quarry would be the real downtown? If I heard correctly, then her "rant" (your word, not mind) was related to the discussion re the quarry.

Re the traffic issue, to be clear (because my post is a bit ambiguous), Zentner did not say the traffic lights would serve as a substitute for widening (he specifically said the widening issue was beyond him), but he did say the lights would play a significant role in reducing congestion, which is something the pro-pavement crowd on another blog often vehemently dispute. My personal take on what he said is that, if these new lights are as groovy as he has suggested, we do not need to widen the highway. Just thought I should clarify.

Again, the meeting was recorded and can be posted on YouTube. That way, those who were not there do not need to rely on my memory or yours.

The turnout was over 60 people in total. The room had a couple of tables for anyone to use; if Theresa wanted to sit there with friends that is totally okay. Anyone could have sat there and they showed up early enough to claim the seats. John Zentner was moving around the room the entire night; he was not tied down to that table, as he did most of the speaking in front of the crowd. If you think the majority of attendees were pro-development, then you guys should have encouraged your friends who are anti-development to show up! I don't understand why you are upset at who showed up; everyone seemed to know about it happening. There were two members of the Chamber of Commerce, and it was open to the public after all. I noticed once the child began being noisy (I would not say "screaming"), the woman left the room. And Laurie was not staying on topic; she dragged out a rant about Palmetto being the downtown of Pacifica and whined about other issues that were not related to the quarry, and it was kind of annoying. I'm glad she was finally shut down, but people left beforehand probably because they wanted information on the quarry and not to hear one person complain about the place they live in.

Thank you, "Why the need...":

There is no substitute (save video footage) for reporting. The residential entitlement drives everything in this project. There won't be commercial without the dense residential building to fund whatever else gets built. And it's highly questionable as to what commercial will be built, much less succeed as such.

Laurie: The housing in the quarry has always been rental apartments.

I was there. The turnout was small and the vast majority of attendees comprised (1) Chamber of Commerce members, (2) the two people who lent their names to the ballot, plus Theresa Dyer (all sitting at one table with Zentner), and (3) lots of people associated with the developer (including one whose wife thought it appropriate to bring their screaming infant to the meeting).

I do not know Pacifica real estate agents by sight, so I do not know if they were there, but it is not correct to say that the 206 units will be "sold" -- the vast majority will be luxury apartment units, available for rent, not for purchase. 20% will be designated "affordable" rentals. I am not sure whether the live/work units will be rentals or houses/condos available for purchase.

Zentner DID try to shut Laurie down. While she was admittedly doing a LOT of the talking, that is because she was trying to pin Zentner down to answers he did not want to give.

But Laurie did get Zentner to concede that the part of the initiative addressing the residential component is poorly worded, which he blamed on the city attorney.

At the same time, Zentner bragged about how hotel transient occupancy tax (TOT) and sales tax generated by the retail component of the proposal would bring in millions for Pacifica, he also conceded (thanks to pointed questions by a guy named "Jacob") that nothing in the initiative requires the developer to build the hotel or any of the promised retail/office space. This is apparently deliberate, because the developer fears another economic downturn would kill the purported demand for a hotel (but not, apparently, for the luxury apartments the developer is intent on building first).

When asked how we can protect against the developer simply building the residential and skipping the rest, Zentner said that City Council could consider the hotel a "mitigation" factor (something like that), meaning that council members could elect, for example, to withhold issuing certificates of occupancy for the residences until the hotel is underway. But this is entirely speculative and would depend on our City Council having the backbone to be proactive in this regard. OK. Sure. Not going to happen.

As for the retail, Zentner said something to the effect that the people occupying the 206 new residential units would eventually drive demand for the retail. But he did not provide any evidence (analyses, economic studies, etc.) to support this claim.

One interesting, positive tidbit for those of us who do not want to pave paradise to put up a wider freeway: Zentner said his traffic guy has preliminarily concluded that congestion at Reina Del Mar can largely be alleviated through the use of new and improved traffic signals. If this is true, we do not need to proceed with the plans to widen Highway 1 (an issue Zentner said was above his pay grade). If there were any pro-pavement people in the group, this announcement must have made their heads spin.

Whoever has the video, please put the UNEDITED version on YouTube, so everyone can watch!

(EDITOR'S NOTE: And please send Riptide a link to the video so we can post it. Use the Comments link on this thread.)

Feel free to post a link to the video -- share with everyone.

@Laurie Soca: Perhaps you should have attended rather than listening to the rumors. It was filmed, if you'd like to go back and watch. In my opinion, Laurie Goldberg attempted to take over the informational and was very disrespectful to other speakers.

@Todd Bray: You should have attended as well. Too bad you'll have to believe the rumors circulating since you could not make time for something that seems to be so important to you (it's what I gather from all of your posts).

But I think the meeting went well. If you didn't speak up, that is not Mr. Zentner's fault as he even allowed Laurie many speaking opportunities.

This was your chance to come out and say what's on your mind, but many of you decided not to, but go ahead and keep posting to online blogs.

I heard it was unbalanced, lots of real estate folks there -- looking forward to selling 206 housing units -- again and again and a gain.

@pcfca 11:57 a.m. Really? I did not perceive the meeting that way at all. I thought the whole thing was fairly presented on both sides; the project manager moved around the room, allowing people on all sides some time to speak, and was receptive to ideas. It was splendid of Chuck Gust to graciously host the space and provide excellent catering. I did not sense any hostility. There was one person very concerned about residential housing who read the description. Mr. Zenter responded to that very specifically. I believe it was all filmed.

"Mitigation Bank" has that Orwellian stink to it. Frogs check in, but they don't check out.

To Pacifica Resident: Sounds like the meeting (sales pitch) was about as expected. I wonder if anyone in favor of the wetland restoration knows it's being constructed for sale as a wetland mitigation bank for some other project somewhere. It ain't a restoration; it's a construction for sale to mitigate ruining a real wetland. Shameful misrepresentation by the development team.

I was very disappointed with the meeting last night, hearing the one-sided conversation and hardly any concern about the residential property. Lots of people for the "restoration" than not in attendance. Lots of misinformed persons who did not want to hear the one or two people speaking against it; in fact, there was lots of hostility toward one person who wasn't really allowed to speak against the project. What a shame!!

@Who Needs: Sorry we have been MIA. Busy getting ready for the meeting tonight and finishing up the petition drive. Look forward to everyone being there tonight to have a good discussion and exchange of ideas.

Todd, of all the places to get 86ed from (Winters Tavern, Cheers, Los Amigos, Ash's Rose Room, The Surf Lounge), you get booted from NextDoor!

Anyone can start a new NextDoor. I am sure almost all of Pacifica is covered, but you just go on the site and pick an area of town, or subdivision.

PRPQ: No one asserted that the residents of Pacifica are not smart enough to figure this out for themselves.

Most Pacificans don't have the time or interest to read a ballot measure initiative -- or even the ballot measure, and arguments for and against on the ballot.

Parsing the language in the developer ballot initiative is not even going to be attempted by most Pacificans -- carefully written and vetted by attorneys to comply with the law.

Those who have read it see it for what it is, a clear attempt to entail the quarry with the maximum amount of housing and a preemptive approval by the public for 206 houses, a 200-room hotel, a convention center, an amphitheater, trails, added and/or widened roads, added infrastructure to support as many as 1,000 new people and their cars, pets, trash, etc.

The developers are undoubtedly hoping to cash in on this fact, and sell the property for many more millions the moment it is entailed with the housing element.

Agreed, Todd -- that whole NextDoor thing was bizarre. Those leads take their titles a little too seriously.

Meanwhile, at the same time the ND leads are working furiously to shut down popular anti-quarry threads, PRPQ is MIA. I guess answering questions that are not pre-approved and to which answers will be examined and picked apart is not as fun as it sounds. Tomorrow night's meeting should be interesting (assuming it actually goes forward).

Get the video-phones ready.

Yeah, I blocked NextDoor a while back; there was a troll who was really annoying, flagging people left and right. Who needs it?

I unsubscribed from the Next Door online forum today because one of the "lead" overlords of Next Door, Matt Levie, PSD board trustee, took it upon himself to end any continuing quarry discussions. Too bad. I've asked Matt by what process he became a Next Door "lead" and I have yet to get a real answer. According to Dan of Pacifica.city, there is a second "lead" who is employed as the IT guy for our fair city. Come on, guys, what's the deal?

Laurie, your dustup at the post office yesterday made the police log. See entry at 14:56:

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